Transcending surface-level conversations to connect on a deeper level

In this episode of the Cupful podcast, hosts Justin and Kandace explore the challenge of transcending surface-level conversations and connecting with others on a deeper level. They discuss their own struggles with opening up about their interests and passions, and share tips for overcoming social anxiety and fostering meaningful connections. From discussing music preferences to embracing hobbies and sharing personal experiences, Justin and Kandace offer insights on how to let your true personality shine in conversations. Tune in for an honest and relatable discussion on finding genuine connections as adults.

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@jntyler
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Transcript

[TRANSCRIPT]

0:00:00 - (Justin): How do we let our personalities kind of out to people organically when we're having conversations? Because I feel like a lot of times people will approach us and they kind of just based on surface level things that they've seen. They talk to us about being parents, or they've seen that you've been at the Renaissance festival, so that's the only thing that they'll bring up. Or you wrote a book, so they talk to you about, like, oh, I bet you love writing, or like, so.

0:00:25 - (Kandace): How do you transcend the surface level, the surface level friendships?

0:00:33 - (Justin): Is it like friendships are just surface level conversation? Maybe conversation? How do you even, like, how do you transcend people's views of you beyond the surface?

0:00:45 - (Kandace): How do you make friends as an adult?

0:00:48 - (Justin): Because I don't think it's so much that, because, like, we're not answering that, because we don't know. This is a self journey to.

0:00:54 - (Kandace): Yeah, and I guess we don't want to necessarily be friends with everybody. We just have this constant desire to make people see us for who we.

0:01:02 - (Justin): Think we are, connect with people in ways that, like, you know, we're like, oh, we're into some of the same things. Let's talk about that. Instead of like, yeah, my kid missed the bus yesterday. And, like, beyond just those types of conversations. Or like, oh, yeah, it looks like the weather'gonna get cold again this week. I thought we were in the clear.

0:01:24 - (Kandace): I'll tell you what.

0:01:25 - (Justin): I'll tell you what.

0:01:26 - (Kandace): If it's not one thing, it's another.

0:01:27 - (Justin): Yeah, you know what I think? I think that we've been podcasting for the last couple of minutes already.

0:01:36 - (Kandace): You know what?

0:01:37 - (Justin): Screw it.

0:01:38 - (Kandace): Screw it.

0:01:39 - (Justin): We're going into it organically. You just listen to us of trying to figure out we knew the idea for this episode and what we were wanting to do. We were trying to figure out what is a hook, what is the main thing that we're trying to get at. And I think that you guys have gone down this road with us.

0:01:55 - (Kandace): I think people get it.

0:01:56 - (Justin): Welcome, listeners to the couple podcast. I am Justin Tyler.

0:02:00 - (Kandace): And I'm Kandace Tyler.

0:02:02 - (Justin): And you can fuck off. I didn't know where I was going with that. I don't know. I think I've been doing more professional podcasts too much recently where you got to get everyone's plugs in. I was like, I don't know, do I transition into talking about, you can find me here, or you can find, like, no one cares, like, if they're listening to this, more than likely they know where to find us. They'll come knocking.

0:02:33 - (Kandace): I mean, the twelve listeners that are listening know exactly where to find us.

0:02:36 - (Justin): Hey, you know what? We haven't podcasted in over a year and a half now. Our viewership has probably dropped in half, down to six.

0:02:43 - (Kandace): My bad. Yeah. Then it might be just five people that are all our family.

0:02:47 - (Justin): I think my mom's, at this point, probably even said, like, fuck this. Not that my mom was ever a.

0:02:52 - (Kandace): Listener, but I don't think my mom ever did listen. There was too many cucks and chips.

0:02:57 - (Justin): We actually had a conversation the other day when we were talking about recording this episode about how maybe we should tone down the fucks and shits.

0:03:07 - (Kandace): Yeah, that's what I was wondering, because I'm pretty sure my boss listened. Whoops.

0:03:11 - (Justin): Yeah, my bosses listened. Well, we'll get into this. Well, I'll just say this. My boss listened to what she thought was my podcast. But actually, I have a friend who has a podcast, and I was on a few episodes of that, and I had shared it at different points, and she just started organ. She started listening to that person's podcast and for some reason thought that was my podcast and thought she was listening to me.

0:03:34 - (Justin): But no, this is officially, this is the Justin Tyler and Kandace Tyler podcast. Cupful, the point of this is we are two grown ass adults living with kids in a mortgage and all of those things. And how the fuck do we find time to fulfill our needs creatively, leisurely? Like, how do we rediscover ourselves as adults, as we're starting to get a little bit more freedom in our life and kind of get some of those bits back?

0:04:03 - (Justin): How do we find ourselves again? How do we. How do we exist together? How do we like. There's all kinds of topics that we're going to be covering as we're picking this podcast back up after this long, long hiatus. But, yeah, we're back and we're doing it, and it's going to be fun. I think that we're. We know better now, kind of the direction that we're going in. So I just wanted to get that housekeeping out of the way, listeners. So, you know what it is that you're listening to and what it is that you have to look forward to.

0:04:29 - (Kandace): Well, I think we chose this topic that we're gonna be talking about tonight because it's been heavy on our hearts and our minds lately as we're trying to find ourselves again. How do we connect with people and let them see who we really are instead of just the surface ye without scaring people, without forcing things down.

0:04:54 - (Justin): Well, with people's thros also, like, I feel like, because I struggle with this so bad. And I'm going to give you an example again without naming any names, we're not looking to anger the four listeners that we have or anything like that. I had a situation the other day where I was with a couple of people and we were just talking about music, and somebody was saying that they don't really listen to a lot of music. And right away in my mind I'm thinking, well, how in the hell do I have a conversation with somebody u about music if they're not really that into music? I think they were saying that, like, you know, like, they, like, like some nostalgic music. So they're, like, kind of stuck in the two thousands and listening to, like, ja rule and things like that.

0:05:36 - (Justin): And I'm sitting here thinking to myself, like, I mean, that's cool. Like, I do that, too. Like, I definitely have, like, my moment where I want to listen to, like, nostalgic music that transcends me to another time. Yeah, but how do I. But then they turn it around and they ask me, like, what do you listen to? What are some of your favorite bands? What would your walk up song be in baseball? Like those types of questions. And I don't know how to answer that without sounding like a pretentious asshole.

0:06:01 - (Kandace): Oh, that's so hard. I actually have a story about that same conversation. I told the person, I'll let you know my walk up song or what I would use in three to five business days when you just circle back, because that's such a broad question. I have so many music moves. And later I messaged them and I just gave some silly song, just some random song as a joke. Like, here would be my walk up song. And they said, oh, I thought that you would be a pink gal.

0:06:31 - (Justin): What?

0:06:32 - (Kandace): Like the artist pink. And I just laughed so hard to myself because if you know me, if you know me, I listening to the artist pink, she makes me angry. Like, when I hear a pink song on the radio or something like that, I.

0:06:52 - (Justin): When was the last time you heard a pink song on the radio?

0:06:54 - (Kandace): I mean, it pops up if you hear something on YouTube or a soundtrack or on the radio and passing. I just. I've always gotten physically angry when I hear her music, and not in a good way. Like, oh, I'm pumped up. It's always like, I just hate it. I turn it off or I'm going to be mad. It's like if you hear someone that's chewing too loud, it's like that same feeling, but with pink. And so just to hear that someone in the world views me as somebody that would get pumped up to p really kind of knocked me down a peg and it hurt my feelings.

0:07:29 - (Justin): Hey, I mean, at the same time, though, like, sometimes those pump up songs should be things that piss you off.

0:07:34 - (Kandace): Yeah, that's what I meant. Like, it doesn't piss me off in a good way. It's like, oh, I just don't want to hear hear it anymore. So, like, how do we naturally talk to people?

0:07:45 - (Justin): How do.

0:07:46 - (Kandace): See?

0:07:46 - (Justin): Yeah, how do you turn that around?

0:07:47 - (Kandace): Feel like we are.

0:07:49 - (Justin): How do you turn it around? And kind of. So for me, I didn't know, like, when that question came up, I never know how to answer. I always kind of get a lot of anxiety around it too, because I listen to so many different things. And I also. I don't want to put myself in this box where like, oh, well, shit, I just said, like, well, I mean, if I had guess my main thing, and this is what I said in this conversation, the main thing that I listen to is I listen to metal, but that doesn't. I also listen to a lot of folksy stuff. I listen to a lot of like, old school hip hop, old school and like, modern east coast hip hop. And like, I just listen to so many different things.

0:08:25 - (Justin): But then I feel like the very moment that I say like, oh, well, I guess I listen to metal is the main thing that my main music genre, that's where the conversation goes. And it gets kind of stuck in this kind of surface level because im not getting, especially in a quick conversation like this. Im'not getting into a deep conversation with them about what bans because most of them, they've probably never heard of. It ends up just being a conversation about like, oh, so do you like Metallica?

0:08:54 - (Kandace): Yeah. And then you start to sound like some weird gatekeeping asshole, like o you probably wouldn't recognize.

0:09:00 - (Justin): Yeah. The thing is, in my head, in my heart, the way that I want that conversation to go is I want to be able to connect on a deeper level where I'm not only saying like, hey, these are the bands that I listen to, but I'm in a place where I'm like, you should check out this song, or you should. This would give you a better idea of what this band is about or what this sound is. This kind of saying, like, if you're interested in what it is that I listen to, you know, like, I would suggest this, like, go check that out and like, that'll give you a good feel for it. Like that in my head, like, I want to say those things, but it never comes out that way.

0:09:32 - (Kandace): But then we freeze up.

0:09:33 - (Justin): You kind of freeze up and you're just like, oh, like, you probably wouldn't hear, I wouldn't have heard of any of these or you wouldn't know, like, I'm not trying to be a gatekeeping pretentious asshole.

0:09:41 - (Kandace): And that kind of ends the conversation and it gets off.

0:09:45 - (Justin): I want to talk music with people. I really want to. So I guess that's part of, yeah. The theme of this episode is really just, you know, how do you transcend that social anxiety that makes you sound like just a dick or just feel.

0:10:02 - (Kandace): Like put on the spot? I know. I get so overwhelmed when someone asks me any question on what I like. It's almost like if you ask me, like, what I want for dinner, that's a really hard, it's the same feeling. Like you forget everything that you've ever liked before and you just don't know what to say. So you're just like tacos. Like you just don't, you just revert to like some generic like thing. So I don't know.

0:10:28 - (Justin): What's weird about it is I feel like I think part of it is being out of practice and answering those questions. When you think about like when you were younger and you were meeting so many new people all the time and having these types of conversations, I feel like you probably had a lot of these answers on the tip of your tongue already.

0:10:44 - (Kandace): You had them in your back pocket.

0:10:46 - (Justin): If somebody asked me what my favorite band is, I'm go going toa be able to tell them and I can tell you. Right. Like Kandace asked me, what are some of my favorite bands?

0:10:53 - (Kandace): What's some of your favorite bands?

0:10:55 - (Justin): Well, coming into my mid thirties, it's changed a lot over the years. I'm not even going to complicate this answer. Some of my favorite bands I love thrice is a band that I have been with for 25 years now and just really grown up with and their sound has kind of grown up with me and matured with me and it's my thing. I love tv. On the radio is another that's kind of like a rocky sound but also just very, I don't know, there's some kind of like more like hip hop and kind of soul kind of aspects to it.

0:11:30 - (Justin): Like, there's so many bands that I love. Like, one thing that I've been really getting into recently is actually kind of this movement in rock music with black artists who are bringing these kind of, like, soul and funk kind of inspiration to rock music. I love the black Pumas. We went to just a couple of months ago, traveled to Philadelphia just to see the black Pumas, and it was so.

0:11:51 - (Kandace): And they did not disappoint.

0:11:52 - (Justin): They did.

0:11:53 - (Kandace): They were so good.

0:11:54 - (Justin): See how easy it is for me and you to have a conversation about music, though?

0:11:57 - (Kandace): I don't know why we can't get past that anxiety to just say exactly that to somebody instead of being like, oh, you know, I like everything. I just like everything.

0:12:08 - (Justin): I also. I have to disclaim really quick, because I did say that I answered in that conversation that if I had to choose one thing, I guess metal is my thing. I get that thrice is not metal. Im not saying that my favorite band is a metal band. Im'saying that if I have a go to genre or something that is my most commonly listen to, it's a lot of different types of metal, too. I grew up very much my big heavy music, influential kind of period was like that kind of post hardcore metalcore, kind of mid two thousands to late two tens or whatever, that kind of era of music. So, yeah, we're having an even deeper conversation about music now. How do I do this with other people?

0:12:54 - (Kandace): I don't know. But you know yourself better than anybody. You're in your own mind all the time, so you know truly who you are. But isn't it interesting that every person you meet has a different opinion of you because they'll have a different experience associated with you.

0:13:12 - (Justin): They've either met you at different times, or they've been introduced to you in a specific circumstance or in ways. And it really comes down to, like, that's. That's kind of like, in this stage of our life, like, depending on how it is that we meet somebody? That's what a lot of our conversations kind of boil down to. We have neighbors that we live around that, like, a lot of times what we talk about is things that are happening here in the neighborhood. It's circumstantial to the environment that we've kind of built, like, cultivated this relationship in.

0:13:43 - (Kandace): So they don't really know us necessarily. No.

0:13:45 - (Justin): I mean, unless they, like, take the initiative to ask these questions and to get to know us. But again, we're also not doing, like, we're doing the same thing to them. We're not asking those deep questions like, what was your favorite Christmas? What's like the coolest toy you got as a kid growing up? Can you remember? And you can answer that by the way. So I'm putting you on the spot. I'm going to kind of practice as we're doing this podcast and recording on this concept, are you able to kind of throw out some of these answers to me on the spot?

0:14:16 - (Kandace): Versuse for sure. Mine wasn't a toy memory, it was a book memory. It was Harry Potter three prisoner of Azkaban and ask cabin. As soon as I opened it, I sat in our pink reclining like rocking chair and I probably sat there for 12 hours and just finished the book. I mean, I was really young, so it took me a minute and I just didn't move from that chair the entire day because I had been waiting for it.

0:14:42 - (Kandace): So to me that was like ultimate Christmas morning. I was never really a toys kid.

0:14:47 - (Justin): Yeah. So, I mean, but if somebody you had just met or somebody you've only spoken to a handful of times had asked you that same question, what would have happened?

0:14:56 - (Kandace): I would have frozen and been like, oh, I don't know. And I probably would have tried to turn it on them. Like, oh, I can't even think.

0:15:03 - (Justin): Or you would have just thrown out the first Christmas gift or Christmas memory that comes to your mind, which is more than likely the most recent. You're just going to throw something out there even though it's probably not even close to your favorite.

0:15:17 - (Kandace): I probably would have been like, oh, I got a Barbie one year. Year.

0:15:21 - (Justin): Yeah.

0:15:21 - (Kandace): And then just felt really, and then.

0:15:23 - (Justin): Suddenly you're known as like, oh, it's that girl that likes Barbie.

0:15:26 - (Kandace): Oh, she loved barbies.

0:15:27 - (Justin): I bet you loved the Barbie movie last year and even in that conversation. So, yeah, it's really difficult to kind of beinging put on the spot and really letting your personality shine and getting a chance to get like, let people in a little bit more and know the real you so that you're getting past those surface level conversations or that.

0:15:48 - (Kandace): Kind of especially when you don't have time. If you're only meeting people in brief instances, like at a kid's soccer practice or baseball practice or at work even because you're busy with work and you don't have a lot of free time to just be talking to people. So people just know these little bits about you and they make up their own ideas about you and they probably go home and tell their spouse's stories about, you know, things that honestly have nothing to do with you in your own opinion. It's just really frustrating.

0:16:21 - (Justin): There's so many ways to kind of get boxed into being just one kind of shallow person. There's nothing beyond being a parent. That's something that I actually struggle with a lot at work is I struggle with finding the balance between letting people in on who I am and also just trying to keep my private life a little more private. But still, I don't know, still building rapport with your cowork workers and stuff. So one thing that I feel like I of get boxed in on a little bit is I'll talk about, like, my kids. Like, that's a saf.

0:16:54 - (Kandace): It's a safe one.

0:16:55 - (Justin): It's a safe one to, like, talk about, like, oh, yeah, my kids like to do this. I like to do this with my kids. Or we were doing this this weekend. I'm not talking to my coworkers necessarily about, like, yeah, and my neighbor was surfing on a dresser that was on fire out in the bonfire. I as we were, like, 30 beers in. I'm not telling my coworkers that.

0:17:19 - (Kandace): Oh, for sure. I feel like every Monday I'll go in, they're like, how was your weekend? You're like, oh, you know, it was good. There was a lot of sports, and that weather was just really good.

0:17:32 - (Justin): Yeah. And it's hard because once you establish that sort of conversation with somebody, it almost feels like that's where you're stuck with that person. So I guess, you know, like, what do you think is the answer? Like, how. How do you move past?

0:17:51 - (Kandace): Maybe see, again, the workplace is a little different there. You want to haveundaries professional to.

0:17:58 - (Justin): Yeah. There has to be a certain level of boundaries in the workplace. So maybe I was just kind of giving that as an example because there'still there's other safe conversations that you can have in the workplace. I'll give an example. A couple years ago, a job that I had, you know, I had several people on my team. Like, we all really loved music. We all really loved video games. We had on our Slack channel.

0:18:20 - (Justin): We had, like, kind of, like, some, like, private group chats where, you know, once a week we would ask a question about video games, or somebody would ask for an update, like, what are you guys playing right now? And we'd have a conversation around that. And that was a way to kind of, like, for me to kind of move past the. You like, yeah, I've got two, three kids and two dogs, and that's my life, honestly.

0:18:43 - (Kandace): Remote working, though, in my opinion, it's easier to connect with your coworkers, because you have that buffer of being remote and you have little chances like that to be able to do that.

0:18:56 - (Justin): But so think about what in that situation makes it easier, though. It's the not being put on the spot, not having the pressure of an instant response. So with the example of, like, that kind of, like, Slack channel that I was, which for listeners, for those of you who don't know or haven't worked remotely or worked with the tool slack, it'just, it's a communications tool that a lot of offices use. So think of it as kind of like we've got this kind of group text or group chat going.

0:19:26 - (Kandace): Well, you can plan what you say. Yeah, you can take a minute.

0:19:29 - (Justin): So if somebody asks you a question, I don't have to be put on the spot and answer right then. And if I don't answer right then, I just look like a jackass. I'm able to think, like, I'if, somebody asked me, like, you know, like, what is your all time favorite song from the nineties? I'm going to YouTube and I'm like, all right. I need, I need something to, like, freshen my brain. Like, refresh my brain.

0:19:51 - (Justin): I need to, like, see, like, remember what all happened in the nineties. So I have to take myself on a trip through the nineties in order, like, I have to have anxiety about this for 2 hours in order to answer this question that this person asked who, like, you know you're going to give them the answer. And it's really, I don't even think they probably want your answer. They just want an opportunity to share with you their favorite song from the nineties.

0:20:11 - (Kandace): Yeah, that's true. They already had one ready to go.

0:20:15 - (Justin): So they're just waiting on me before they can. And then they're like, waiting on pen. And he's like, I just need this jackass to fucking answer so I can throw mine out there and blow his out of the water.

0:20:25 - (Kandace): I feel like if you're in person, almost the key to being more interesting is doing the opposite of what you would think. Like, you think having boundaries and thinking of some cooler answer would make you easier to connect to. But I think just the honesty and just being very open with somebody is almost the better choice. Like, kind of shows your personality.

0:20:52 - (Justin): Yeah.

0:20:52 - (Kandace): Does that make sense? Like, instead of just saying, like, oh, I had a great weekend doing kids sports or whatever, like, it was so fun. Be like, oh, I rotted on the couch for 12 hours watching the walking dead, and I made cakes in the shape of zombie heads to celebrate watching the end of walking dead. I feel like if you're more honest about what you're actually doing over the weekend, people start to get little glimpses into, like, who you actually are instead of you being afraid to, like, show it.

0:21:27 - (Justin): So you bring up, thats a real example that Kandace is sharing right now, kind of celebrating the long, long journey from October of 2023 to now, April 2024, of watching through the entirety of the Walking Dead series, including we only have one of the spinoff shows left with our kids. Its something that weve been doing with the kids. We watched an episode with them around Halloween time back in October, and they just, they got hooked.

0:21:59 - (Justin): And I think that I was kind of burn out on it when it was originally airing. There was like a certain point where I was done with the show and I just never watched past that point. So I think I was like, all right. I think especially because we were able to binge now and we dont have to watch week to week, it was kind of nice to kind of just go back and have something. If we never knew what to do with the kids, we could just rot.

0:22:18 - (Kandace): On the couch and throw on an.

0:22:20 - (Justin): Episode thr on an episode or two. And that was what we did. So it took us, it took us a long time.

0:22:26 - (Kandace): Yeah, it took us like six months to get through it. But, yeah, we feel like if you're really honest with people about what you did or little conversation starters, over time, people start to piece together like, oh, this is kind of who, that's not what I expected because you, they used to just talk about their kids all the time or the weather.

0:22:48 - (Justin): Like, this is, I'm emphasizing this example that you've shared because typically I would go to work and if somebody asked me like, well, how was your weekend? I'd be like, oh, it was good. We had a baseball game and two soccer games this weekend. It was fun.

0:23:03 - (Kandace): And we seem like the most boring.

0:23:04 - (Justin): People, but when you get into the deeper conversation, on top of those things that we did, we also hit this huge milestone of watching the Walking Dead. That kind of, to me, shows like, oh, this. You like to watch tv or movies or things with your kids. You guys like horror? You like zombies? Tell me about zombies. What is your favorite zombie movie? Like, that can lead to deeper conversations. You don't let yourself go there, though.

0:23:30 - (Justin): And it's, I don't know. I don't know what it is for me that blocks me from, like, in that moment. I can't think of the right way to follow up on those conversations until the conversation is done. And it would seem weird for me to, like, pop back in with that.

0:23:46 - (Kandace): Another thing that seems weird is if you've never opened up to someone before, and then they start opening up, it starts to sound really fake and almost like you're being a chameleon when you start just chiming in, like, oh, I like that, too. Oh, yes, I also like that, too, when you've never talked to them before. And so I struggle with that a lot because I, when I'm in a new group of people, I tend to be a listener.

0:24:14 - (Kandace): I'll observe and I'll listen. It's harder for me to join in right away because I'm trying to figure out, who am I surrounded by? What do I feel like I can say, and what do I feel like? I cannot say if that makes sense. So to a certain extent, I am chameleoning, but I'm just trying to see. It's almost like a self preservation. Like, like, do I trust these people? Like, who are they? Then they start saying things, and I start just randomly, like, chiming in, like, oh, yeah, me too.

0:24:47 - (Kandace): It. Because I've never opened up before. So then. But I don't know.

0:24:51 - (Justin): The thing is, though, is it really, is it the worst thing to say the wrong things or to say something about yourself that maybe they don't connect with and you're so afraid that you have to say the right things and say something that kind of goes with what they're saying or doing so that you can have a conversation with them about something, you know, they're interested in. I think that we should challenge people to have conversations with us about maybe something that they don't know anything about or they're not into, but you are.

0:25:21 - (Justin): Let them ask those questions. Let that one thing that I've experienced recently, a couple weeks ago, WrestleMania. So I grew up on wrestling. I took several years where I, you know, I didn't watch in, like, my late teens, early, like, well, most of my, like, early adulthood. And I kind of came back to it, like, several years back. I don remember. I think I started playing one of the video games, and it just got me really, like, oh, no. We were watching Glow, the Glow series on Netflix.

0:25:53 - (Justin): That's a story for another time. But over the last several years, I've gotten back into wrestling, and it's kind of had its ups and downs, but right now, it's really good. And I'm in this mood where, like, I just. I want to talk about it, and I'm watching the pay per views and all of this. So, yeah, WrestleMania was going on a couple weeks ago, and it was the first. So WrestleMania is two nights, and on night one, our daughter was having, like, a sleepover for her birthday and had a bunch of kids over. So, like, that was kind of like my, I went out in the garage to watch WrestleMania because we have a projector set up out there and a big screen and everything. And I kind of just retreated to the garage that night to watch by myself perfectly fine. I enjoyed it a lot, but the second night, I enjoyed watching it out there so much that I decided to do it again.

0:26:43 - (Justin): And it was a really nice night, too. The weather was good. It felt great. So I had the garage door open as I was watching it. And we, we have neighbors who, like, if we have a garage door and we're out there, they're going to come walk up and none of them watch wrestling or really that interested in it, but they were coming up and we were having fun. Just kind of sit standing in the garage doorway with the projector going, watching WrestleMania, having conversations about it. They were asking me questions about it. I was answering. I was.

0:27:13 - (Justin): I wasn't so afraid of sharing with them something that I'm interested in that I know they're not. They were good sports about it, and I had fun. So that was a recent example of kind of overcoming that a little bit. But traditionally, I'm scared to share things that I enjoy because for whatever reason, I'm worried that they're going to put it down or think lesser of me or kind of just be closed minded to.

0:27:42 - (Justin): To, you know, like, whatever it is that I'm interested in that they're not.

0:27:46 - (Kandace): That is something that bothers me. And I'm not saying that they did that at all, but as a rule, it does feel like that the majority of people do love to put other people down for things that they like.

0:27:59 - (Justin): They like, yeah.

0:28:00 - (Kandace): And I'm not sure why because other than me maybe making a joke, I can't imagine doing that to somebody like them telling me something that they're passionate about and having a conversation, and then me just, like, shitting on it, being like, oh, that's fucking dumb. Can you imagine that? And I see that all the time, like, okay, maybe it's not for you. That doesn't mean that it's dumb. But, yeah, I think that's a big reason why I've always been afraid to, like, open up about things that I truly like because our generation, I feel like, especially when we were in high school, if you didn't like the cool things, then you were just dumb.

0:28:44 - (Kandace): So you couldn't really open up about what you really liked, I feel like. And that kind of followed me all through my twenties. And now that I'm in my thirties, I think I care a little less.

0:28:53 - (Justin): You were ridiculed for it or bullied even in those days. And I think that there were several things that I was so into when I was younger that I think kind of fell out with it because, like, you know, so I mentioned that I grew up on wrestling. Like, pro wrestling and anime were, like, two really big things from my youth that in my te, later teen years kind of dropped off because, like, I was so. I don't know, I was so afraid of what other people, like, I was finally, like, making big groups of friends and, and I was connecting with people in other ways through music and my love of horror films and things like that that were a little more kind of, like, mainstream at those times.

0:29:36 - (Justin): So I was afraid of, like, kind of opening up to people about those things. So that's why I stopped watching. I stopped following. I fell out with it. And it wasn't until, like, you kind of get to this point where you're an adult and you just, I guess, don't really care as much what people think.

0:29:50 - (Kandace): Like, you kind of, we'also not surrounded by so many teenagers anymore that are.

0:29:56 - (Justin): You'Re not so worried about what a couple of teenagers who have never left their hometown or experienced anything even somewhat out of the ordinary other than their local mexican restaurant. You're not so afraid of what they think of you and the things that you like. Most of the people that I was so worried about impressing as a teenager, what are they doing with their lives that I need to. Why do I need to impress them? What is it that I'm trying to earn their approval?

0:30:29 - (Justin): Like, most, like, a lot of them are losers and, you know, not doing shit, or at least, and if they are doing shit, like, they're not connected to me whatsoever. I have my own.

0:30:38 - (Kandace): It doesn't even matter. And I think we've come to realize that it's not other people that we're really trying to keep compete with. It's the past versions of ourselves. Like, we just want to improve. So if we only have ourselves to impress, then we can do whatever we want.

0:30:56 - (Justin): So let me ask you, what is something in your life that you've really enjoyed or been a fan of or like, something that you just like, hold very, very dear to you that you have been afraid that people would judge you for.

0:31:12 - (Kandace): Okay, so I wouldn't say I hold it very dear. This one that's going a little bit far for this specific example, but something that I always pretended to like ironically all through high school, and this is embarrassing to say.

0:31:28 - (Justin): Wait, wait, hold on. Can I guess?

0:31:29 - (Kandace): Yeah.

0:31:30 - (Justin): Pink.

0:31:30 - (Kandace): No.

0:31:34 - (Justin): Ska.

0:31:35 - (Kandace): No, not ska. I legitimately don't like ska music, but.

0:31:41 - (Justin): Anytime that I put sca music on, she is into it.

0:31:44 - (Kandace): I was vibing to the guy from sublime, his son.

0:31:50 - (Justin): Oh, yeah. We were watching the livestream from Coachella the other day and yeah, the, the lead singer of Sublime who passed way his son was performing with them. That was kind of a fun.

0:31:59 - (Kandace): And he was really doing it. Really doing it. And I was vibing to it. And then I remembered, shit, I'm not supposed to like sublime because that's really touching its toe across the skull line, in my opinion. Yeah. Anyways, okay, so back to all through, you know, junior high and high school. Something that I pretended to hate or just like, ironically, like, or make slash make fun of was the Twilight series.

0:32:26 - (Kandace): And I know that you're cringing, right? Re. You're literally cringing on the couch.

0:32:32 - (Justin): So I'm not making faces or anything.

0:32:37 - (Kandace): I loved reading the Twilight books. And then when the movies came out, I worked at the theater during that time, and I had so much fun watching them. And I can recognize they're cheesy. I'm not saying that they're not cheesy, but I legitimately looked forward to those movies coming out, and that was always something that I hid from my friends or, like, the people I worked with that were big movie buffs because I was also a big movie buff.

0:33:04 - (Kandace): That doesn't mean we can't all have fun with different genres of movies. You can be a movie buff and, like, silly things in my opinion. But, yeah, I always looked so forward to that. And then when people would bring it up, like, oh, those stupid fucking Twilight movies are coming out, I don't know why people would wait in line until midnight to watch those. And I would just be like, thinking, like, I would.

0:33:28 - (Kandace): And now that I'm an adult and I don't really care, I'll tell people, like, I don't care. I like the Twilight movies. I liked the books. I love fantasy. I love just like, dark, weird fiction. It's fun.

0:33:46 - (Justin): So I will say this to kind of throw myself under the bus with you a little bit there on the Twilight front. So I remember I made fun of in high school. Like, this was before the movie started coming out because I think the first movie in the series kind of lined up with me graduating, like around the time that I graduated.

0:34:08 - (Kandace): It was 2008 or 2000.

0:34:10 - (Justin): It was right in there. So in high school it was just like a lot of my friends were reading the books and I remember just kind of making fun of people for that. So I'm also guilty of being an asshole for things that people like without understanding what it is that I'm making fun of. But then I remember I had no, I did not watch the first movie. And I just remember hating on it so hard, even though I never watched it.

0:34:34 - (Justin): Then I think my sophomore year of college, I was dating a girl who was really into it and she wanted to go to the midnight premiere. So I was like, all right, like, well, well, go do this. Well, go watch it. I watched the first one to get caught up because I cant see the second movie in a series that watching the first. And it was something, it's one of.

0:34:54 - (Kandace): Those things just like anything else, that if you have no context and you're just watching it. Yeah, it's pretty ridiculous.

0:35:02 - (Justin): It's a ridiculous, cheesy, kind of good to even fun to hate on kind of movie.

0:35:11 - (Kandace): It is.

0:35:11 - (Justin): I will give it this, especially new Moon, the second movie in the series, the soundtrack.

0:35:18 - (Kandace): Oh, the.

0:35:19 - (Justin): I fucking loved it. For that reason alone, I actually enjoyed watching the movie. So fast forward to the next year. I'm working for my school, my university's newspaper, and we were looking for somebody to go to the premier, the midnight premiere of Eclipse, and just interview people and kind of do like a review and everything on it. And I volunteered. I went and did it. I was like, screw it.

0:35:48 - (Kandace): See, there you go. You're having fun with the Twilight saga.

0:35:51 - (Justin): But then I never ever saw either of the breaking dawn movies. So that was my.

0:35:55 - (Kandace): Yeah, it's. I don't know, it's. You realize, I think when you get older that everyone likes things for different reasons. And it may be embarrassing, you know, when you're younger, to share those things. But now I just, I don't really care. But I also don't want to share that in a surface level conversation with somebody and let them think that, that that's like, what I'm all about. Twilight. Yeah. Have you ever seen those Twilight movies?

0:36:22 - (Kandace): They're so freaking good. Like, that's how I struggle having a balance. Like, how do I open up to people?

0:36:29 - (Justin): I think that probably the graduated version of that what you could do in modern day is you could probably just, in some way fig, like, just start a conversation about, like, books in general and then is depending on, like, what kind of books that they're into or, like, what kind of. What kind of direction you think that conversation could go. You could then ask them, like, how about that fairy smut?

0:36:50 - (Justin): Well, and that might transition down the line into talking about Twilight, but there's steps to get there.

0:36:55 - (Kandace): That's the thing is, I think the dark fairy fantasy smut books that I read now, if you meet another woman who reads that, you know what she was reading back in high school, you know she was reading Twilight in high school. You know that she was. And it translates really to all fantasy. You know, that she was reading Lord of the Rings, Harry Potter, Outlander. Like, I'm not saying in high school, but just, you know, all through, you can just kind of pinpoint what kind of person they are.

0:37:29 - (Kandace): So for me, it is nice to kind of talk about what I am doing currently, and then you can kind of make some assumptions on kind of what they were doing before based off what they're doing now. People don't really change that much.

0:37:44 - (Justin): No, I mean, it evolves. Like I said, like, that's kind of the graduated modern version of being a Twilight fan is probably the fairy smut.

0:37:53 - (Kandace): Yeah.

0:37:55 - (Justin): For me, I think pro wrestling is still pro wrestling, but it's going through a renaissance right now and it's cool again, pro wrestling, renaissance, renaissance. Oh, that's another thing that we get boxed in, like, people, because they, especially, if they follow us on social media, they see that we. We go to the Renaissance festival, and we both really love the Renaissance festival to the point we were on another podcast last year talking about our local Renaissance festival and also talking about plans for that following season, trying to travel a little more and going to Renaissance festivals outside of our home one.

0:38:30 - (Justin): And then I was on another episode of that same podcast, not a little bit later. And, you know, I was asked to kind of follow up on, like, you know, like, hey, how did all that go? Like, where are you guys at with Renaissance festival? Blah, blah, blah. And I, we didn't really do a lot past that. And I. I kind of just. I didn't know, like, where, like, how to steer the conversation. Like, it was one of those moments where I was kind of like, dear in the headline, I was like, oh, shit.

0:38:53 - (Justin): We didn't follow up on, like, any of those plans that we had set for that year. Not only that, but we only went to our home Renaissance festival twice last year, and I felt like a little bit of a failure because this is something that I had gotten kind of boxed into. Like, that was something that he knew about me and he knew was an interest of ours and had us onto his podcast to talk about these things, and I felt like I had failed even my own stereotype.

0:39:16 - (Kandace): Yeah. Your own. Well, yeah. When you do get boxed in and then someone tries to follow up with you and you're like, oh, well, that's not my whole life.

0:39:23 - (Justin): Yeah, there's things. A lot happened that year, and we just didn't. We weren't able to make it out to our own local renaissance festival that much that season, just with everything that was going on. And we sure as hell weren't able to travel that season to go to other ones.

0:39:39 - (Kandace): Yeah.

0:39:40 - (Justin): Might still happen in the future, but it was kind of. It was kind of a bad year for us. Renaissance festival w like, we didn't get to do a whole lot, so hopefully we come back better this yeareah. But just because we love that, it's not the only thing that we're into.

0:39:53 - (Kandace): There's so many things. So many things. I basically, I just want to learn how to open up to people. I want to make more friends, and I want to make friends based around our true selves. I don't want to just talk about kids in the weather and, like, the one band that they think I might like.

0:40:14 - (Justin): Yeah.

0:40:15 - (Kandace): So, I don't know.

0:40:16 - (Justin): So I think that I've got some solutions on some things. We can try some goals to set, some goals to set. And I think that taking a kind of a proactive approach to it in, you know, like, not. Not waiting for the opportunity for somebody else to ask you the right question that you can then, like, all right, this is going to be the time that I'm able to answer this without Sou either sounding like an asshole or just not giving them an answer at all and then panicking for the next three days thinking about what I should have said.

0:40:45 - (Justin): I think that we get ahead of it and we ask other people good questions.

0:40:50 - (Kandace): Okay.

0:40:51 - (Justin): Interview them a little bit. Like, try to. People like to talk about themselves. So I think that that gives us a little bit of a safety net. If we ask them, like, a question about something that they're into or something that they, like, give them a little bit of time to talk about that thing, hopefully they're able to answer better than we could, were'able to have a conversation with them about that topic and maybe in the meantime, like, that opens us up and makes us feel a little more comfortable to share a little bit about ourselves or at least buy.

0:41:20 - (Kandace): Us some time to think about something in our while or just b us.

0:41:24 - (Justin): Enough time to while theyre talking and we'not actively listening or sitting here trying to figure out, like, what is it I'going to bounce back with? That's even better.

0:41:32 - (Kandace): And that's when my add forgets to actually listen to them. And then it'just a never ending circle of bad conversation.

0:41:39 - (Justin): And then you've then built this connection with this person based on this conversation that you had that you were not an active participant in. And they have follow up conversations with you down the line, kind of alluding back to that conversation. You're like, oh shit, what did they say?

0:41:55 - (Kandace): Can you repeat the question?

0:41:56 - (Justin): Wait, I agreed to do this ##or for you on the third Saturday of.

0:42:01 - (Kandace): March, did I sign anything or don'remember. This?

0:42:07 - (Justin): But yeah, I think trying to take a little bit more of a proactive approach. And so it does two things. Like you said, I mean, it's not so much about buying time, but I think that it's about taking some of the pressure off of yourself and just transferring that onto another person momentarily to buy you enough time to feel comfortable to be the person to have that conversation. So the next time somebody, I strike up a conversation with somebody about music, like maybe, yeah, you do. Like, maybe you start off with kind of that generic answer of like, I like metal.

0:42:41 - (Kandace): I like music.

0:42:42 - (Justin): I love music. Maybe you start off with a general piece. You don't have to let it die there. You could ask them like, if theyve already answered maybe the genre of music that they listen to or something. Like ask them about a concert that they've been to that they really enjoyed. And maybe that leads to you, like, you know, like, yeah, like, I really love metal music. But also, you know, like a few months ago, like, we traveled to Philadelphia to see black pumas live and that's a different music genre entirely. And then you can have conversations about all these things and maybe you get into a conversation about like, oh, like, how'you like philly?

0:43:16 - (Justin): I really, like, I went to do this in Philadelphia one time and I really liked it. And like, suddenly you're talking about the city that you visited and then you're talking about travel, kind of spirals.

0:43:25 - (Kandace): Like, oh, yeah, I'm a huge history fan. So Philadelphia was a great. So yeah, there's so many avenues that.

0:43:30 - (Justin): You can, talking about food, talking about beers, talk about, like, there's so many things that you can fall into a conversation about just based off of that one thing. Somebody asked you, what kind of music do you listen to? And you get into a deeper conversation that transcends the surface and you are able to then dive into all the other things that kind of get built up to make you who you are, your experiences, like the things that you like.

0:44:00 - (Justin): I don't know. It'just. I know it can happen. I've just described to you exactly how it does happen, and it's still. It's something that I struggle with talking to people about. So being proactive, trying to get past.

0:44:14 - (Kandace): That, I guess you'justnna have to practice. I think it's practice when we don't have a lot of, I feel like adult conversations daily. We get out of practice. We have a lot of conversations with our kids, our families, a little bit of work conversation, but other than that, not a lot. So guess we're just out of practice and we need to get back out there.

0:44:37 - (Justin): We're definitely out of practice. I think that it's a combination of working remotely, post pandemic like, and also just getting older in general, especially for men. Did you know that's actually a pretty common thing amongst the male gender?

0:44:53 - (Kandace): They forget how to talk.

0:44:54 - (Justin): They forget how to socialize with people. And I've seen this, like, I've always wondered, like, even with my own dad, kind of just. He's awkward around people. And I've always wondered, like, why you weren't always this way. I've seen you with friends. I've seen you around people. Why is it that anytime you're around another human being, you almost like, my dad's the kind of person that, like, like, if you're at a restaurant with them and the waitress.

0:45:17 - (Justin): I shouldn't say waitress. Not all waitress. Server. Your server and the server, ask them, what do you want to eat? He'll look at you like you're expected to answer for them because he can't fathom socializing with anybody.

0:45:32 - (Kandace): Usually when someone does that, it's because they forgot their reading glasses. I've learned.

0:45:36 - (Justin): Oh, yeah, I guess there's that, too.

0:45:39 - (Kandace): Which also is a part of getting older, to be fair.

0:45:42 - (Justin): But I think that you kind of. I don't know, I think that is men especially, and I don'maybe. It is the same for women, too, but I don't see it as much with women, but with men, I think that we kind of tend to almost retreat a little bit into ourselves socially and emotionally. As we get older, and I don't want that to be me. I'm really trying to be a little more proactive in taking control of my mental health and the things that do cause me, like, kind of just social and mental anguish and be proactive in overcoming those obstacles. And I.

0:46:22 - (Justin): There was a point in time in my life where I, believe it or not, was a social butterfly. You, me, I would talk to people I didn't know at parties. Granted, there might have been some social lubrication liquid in nature, but, you know, I never. There was a time where, like, I didn't have any problem meeting new people and talking to them, even as part of my job. Like, I. I would go, like, jobs that I had in the past working in video production.

0:46:54 - (Justin): I would actually actively interview people. Now, like, when I'm doing an interview style video for, like, work or something, I'm behind the camera, but I have to have somebody else typically ask the questions for me. Like, I've gotten worse. I've lost this skill, and I want to start to take that back. Talking to people.

0:47:14 - (Kandace): Well, I dare you.

0:47:17 - (Justin): I mean, you can't dare me. I do double dog dare you.

0:47:21 - (Kandace): I'm gonna try. I'm going toa take some of the little tips and tricks that you brought up and apply it this week, and we'll circle back and we can see how we did.

0:47:35 - (Justin): Follow us fails. You can just pretend that whoever you're talking to is in their underwear.

0:47:39 - (Kandace): That doesn't ever help. I don't know why. That's, like, the age old advice.

0:47:45 - (Justin): Oh, I think it's meant to, like, help you feel less embarrassed if, like, you're.

0:47:51 - (Kandace): It makes me feel more embarrassed because then I feel like I'm like, where do I look?

0:47:55 - (Justin): Yeah, where they'renna know that I'm picturing them in there underwear.

0:48:03 - (Kandace): Or we could just take advice from our preteen and anyone we talk to to say, I don't need the backstory.

0:48:12 - (Justin): The attitude.

0:48:13 - (Kandace): Yeah, attitude.

0:48:15 - (Justin): That's. That's a topic for another day as we're winding down on this, this return episode of the Cupful Podcast. And feel free to ask me questions, too. I feel like I've been kind of grilling you throughout this episode, but what's something about you, like, today now, something that you do as either a hobby or something that you're interested in or something that you want to learn more about. And our researching that doesn't normally come up in conversation or have never organically, like, come up in conversation. Something that somebody doesn people don't know about you.

0:48:52 - (Kandace): I think for me, it would be the things that I relentlessly research that nobody knows about that I don't often act on. So I relentlessly research, like gardening and like, homesteading, which is pretty much every other woman in their thirties ever. But the home setting is real with our generation ye I fall into that algorithm rabbit hole, and I don't talk to anybody about that at all because to me, I'm like, no one cares.

0:49:23 - (Kandace): So I don't know. Okay, that's a big one that I think I currently do. I spend a lot of time and energy researching stuff along those lines, and I just don't talk about it because I feel like there's no point. Sometimes, like, people won't care.

0:49:38 - (Justin): I mean, I don't know if people are giving you the time of day to have a conversation with you. I mean, there's some level of caring what you have to say. And even if they don't care, I mean, they wouldn't have gotten themselves into a conversation with you if they didn't want to. So if they don't care, why are they talking to you? I think that kind of just set yourself up for it's okay for me to have a voice in this conversation.

0:50:01 - (Justin): I don't have to impress them with what I'm saying. I don't have to. I can talk about this thing and not have to worry about whether or not they care about the thing that I'm talking about. Welcome to the world of podcasting. This is what we're doing right now, and it's one of the reasons that we took such a long hiatus. We were worried that the listeners wouldn't care what we have to say. And I think I've just reminded Kandace enough times at this point.

0:50:29 - (Justin): It's not why I'm doing it. I really enjoy kind of just getting here and letting my thoughts spill out in this format and having these types of conversations with you. This is a way for us to have conversations that are not so surface level or not related to, like, hey, what is our schedule on Tuesday? Or what is the weather this day that we're going to have? Because sometimes we get trapped in these types of conversations, too.

0:50:54 - (Justin): And it's a reminder that, like, we are both people with our own personalities and interests and, you know, like, we both have this need to talk about these things and find people that are interested in potentially listening to it.

0:51:07 - (Kandace): I'm here for it.

0:51:08 - (Justin): I'm here for it, too. This has been the couple podcast, and again, I'm Justin Tyler.

0:51:14 - (Kandace): And I'm Kandace Tyler.

0:51:15 - (Justin): Thanks for listening.